Hello All,

One of the reasons I got my Extra ticket is because of the extra bandwidth to work European staions in the lower end of 40, 75 and 80 meters. Plus, if there's contesting going on and I am not participating in the contest, the extra bandwidth is a welcome respite.

Also, for Nigel's reason of not worring about being out of my license bandwidth. XD

I won't lie: the Extra test was difficult for me but I did it. I'm still glad I did it though.

-- Sean

... Go straight to the docs. Do not pass GO. Do not collect $200!
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Re: Extra Class
By: Sean Dennis to All on Sun Oct 19 2025 12:36:37

I won't lie: the Extra test was difficult for me but I did it. I'm still glad I did it though.

I study from time to time but there is a lot of try and remember and most of it I'll never likely use and if I do, it's all on the internet anyway.

I sometimes wonder about the validity of tests in the day and age of the internet. Way back when you couldn't just go online and look up half the stuff you need to know, bu then again, you really need a basic understanding of the laws that we have to operate under which is not one of those "I didn't know" type things you can get away with if you nuke your neighbors TV pushing a gigawatt right down their antenna :)
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Hi Nigel,

I sometimes wonder about the validity of tests in the day and age of the internet. Way back when you couldn't just go online and
look up half the stuff you need to know, bu then again,
you really need a basic understanding of the laws that
we have to operate under which is not one of those "I
didn't know" type things you can get away with if you
nuke your neighbors TV pushing a gigawatt right down
their antenna :)

From my experience as a VE, most hams taking a test seem to want to memorize the answers then learn later the actual information. I did the same myself but through experimentation and gaining experience, I learned and understood.

The Part 97 stuff is something you have to read, memorize, and understand. The FCC doesn't take "I didn't know" for an answer.

73,
Sean


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On Sun, 19 Oct 2025 20:53:00 +0000
"Sean Dennis" (1:18/200) <Sean.Dennis@f200.n18.z1.fidonet> wrote:

Hi Nigel,

I sometimes wonder about the validity of tests in the day and
age of the internet. Way back when you couldn't just go online
and look up half the stuff you need to know, bu then again,
you really need a basic understanding of the laws that
we have to operate under which is not one of those "I
didn't know" type things you can get away with if you
nuke your neighbors TV pushing a gigawatt right down
their antenna :)

From my experience as a VE, most hams taking a test seem to want to
memorize the answers then learn later the actual information. I did
the same myself but through experimentation and gaining experience, I
learned and understood.

The Part 97 stuff is something you have to read, memorize, and
understand. The FCC doesn't take "I didn't know" for an answer.

But they accept lucky guess :)
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On Sun 19-Oct-2025 12:36p, Sean Dennis@1:18/200.0 wrote:

Also, for Nigel's reason of not worring about being out of my license bandwidth. XD

LOL. yeah, now all you have to worry about is accidently responding to an out of region DX station, in a portion of the band you would not be listening to if you weren't an Extra. Oh, and when you normally would just not log it so nobody would know. You do because you are working a contest.. (ASK ME HOW I KNOW...).

Then there are the hams that will openly talk and teach others how to transmit out of band on their BaoFangs or CB(HF) modified radios, and will make it seem like you are the bad person for pointing out it is illegal.

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
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On Sun 19-Oct-2025 8:53p, Sean Dennis@1:18/200.0 said to Nigel Reed:

From my experience as a VE, most hams taking a test seem to want to memorize the answers then learn later the actual information. I did the same myself but through experimentation and gaining experience, I learned and understood.

At least it is easier to do so now all the information that is available on Youtube.

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
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Sean,

One of the reasons I got my Extra ticket is because of the
extra bandwidth to work European staions in the lower end of
40, 75 and 80 meters. Plus, if there's contesting going on and
I am not participating in the contest, the extra bandwidth is a
welcome respite.

That's where the juicy DX is. :)

Also, for Nigel's reason of not worring about being out of my
license bandwidth. XD

At least until the FCC changes the bandplans again. :P

I won't lie: the Extra test was difficult for me but I did it.
I'm still glad I did it though.

Agreed on both. I missed 13 when I took mine, but that was good
enough for a CSCE.

I upgraded not so much to work HF (the last time I did that was
on Memorial Day Weekend, 2011, on the Arkansas and Missouri Railroad
Memorial Day Troop Train)...but to become a Volunteer Examiner (VE),
and eventually a team leader. When I'm on the air (mainly for my nets),
I'm in the Technician Class privileges, as I enjoy them.

73,

Daryl, N5VLZ

... NBAcious - Last ditch effort of a player as the buzzer goes off.
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Sean,

From my experience as a VE, most hams taking a test seem to
want to memorize the answers then learn later the actual
information. I did the same myself but through experimentation
and gaining experience, I learned and understood.

That's why I went with HamTestOnline. You are presented both the
questions AND the concepts. So, you're learning something, and NOT
just memorizing answers.

The Part 97 stuff is something you have to read, memorize, and
understand. The FCC doesn't take "I didn't know" for an
answer.

It's a good thing that "Renewal" doesn't mean "Re-Testing".
Otherwise, the hobby would've died out long ago.

73,

Daryl, N5VLZ

... H.A.M. - Have Another Meal, Haven't Any Money, Haven't Any Memory
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Sean,

I wish YouTube was around when I was working on my Tech (late
1997). Would have made life much easier.

I wish HamTestOnline was around when I passed the Novice and
Technician written (No-Code) in 1991. I used them to upgrade from
Technician to General in 14 days, and from General to Amateur Extra
13 days later, from mid-July to mid-August, 2007. It was the best
money I ever spent in ham radio.

73,

Daryl, N5VLZ

... I CQ. Therefore, I HAM -- DE N5VLZ
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Hello, Rug!

Replying to a message of Rug Rat to Sean Dennis:

LOL. yeah, now all you have to worry about is accidently responding to
an out of region DX station, in a portion of the band you would not
be listening to if you weren't an Extra. Oh, and when you normally
would just not log it so nobody would know. You do because you are working a contest.. (ASK ME HOW I KNOW...).

I couldn't tell you how many times as a General I pulled off that trick during a contest, both SSB and digital.

Then there are the hams that will openly talk and teach others how to transmit out of band on their BaoFangs or CB(HF) modified radios, and
will make it seem like you are the bad person for pointing out it is illegal.

Stupid is as stupid does. Like the idiots on 7.200 and 14.313.

-- Sean KS4TD

--- FleetStreet 1.27.1
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Hello, Rug!

Replying to a message of Rug Rat to Sean Dennis:

At least it is easier to do so now all the information that is
available on Youtube.

I wish YouTube was around when I was working on my Tech (late 1997). Would have made life much easier.

-- Sean KS4TD

--- FleetStreet 1.27.1
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On Tue 21-Oct-2025 6:29p, Sean Dennis@1:18/200.0 said to Rug Rat:

Stupid is as stupid does. Like the idiots on 7.200 and 14.313.

Or the idiots who don't know how to turn the VFO knob, at least they stay on a single frequency. Rather they stay to themselves than go around jamming other QSO or nets. They have been there long before I was a ham and will be around a lot longer I presume. If the FCC was going to do something, they would have done it by now.

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
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On Tue 21-Oct-2025 6:32p, Sean Dennis@1:18/200.0 said to Rug Rat:

I wish YouTube was around when I was working on my Tech (late 1997).
Would have made life much easier.

Novice and Tech were not the problem for me, read "Now You're Talking" cover to cover, was an excellant book for teaching the therory. Much better than the ARRL pub and the Gordon West books.

The ARRL General manual was well written.

The Advanced (At the time) and Extra books. BLECH!! Failed the Advanced 7 times and gave up. Kept me off from upgrading to Extra for a decade or more. The W4EEY video course was what finally explained the math well enough for me to pass. The problem with the ARRLs Extra book is I need 1 simple formula to solve an answer, and they give you 3 pages and 3 or 4 other formulae to get to the one I need, by the time I got there my brain was already mush..

I also always thought it was funny. The General had theory in it that would have been great to learn and viable for the Tech, the same with the Extra, such as satelite operation. It even has one large chapter dealing with VHF/UHF theory and operation. I am not upgrading to Extra so I can know more about VHF/UHF...

Rug Rat (Brent Hendricks)
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Re: Re: Extra Class
By: Rug Rat to Sean Dennis on Tue Oct 21 2025 21:09:32

Novice and Tech were not the problem for me, read "Now You're Talking" cover to cover, was an excellant book for teaching the therory. Much better than the ARRL pub and the Gordon West books.

I grok! I had the Radio Shack version of NYT; very understandable, though I did have problems with the antennae section. The last book I had was ARRL's and didn't care for it; I thought it was lacking in depth which just made parts more confusing than they needed to be.
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On 21 Oct 2025, Rug Rat said the following...

I also always thought it was funny. The General had theory in it that would have been great to learn and viable for the Tech, the same with
the Extra, such as satelite operation. It even has one large chapter dealing with VHF/UHF theory and operation. I am not upgrading to Extra
so I can know more about VHF/UHF...

Digging up some slightly older posts... Sorry about that.

Anyway, I absolutely agree. Some of what was in the Extra test pool would have been fantastic to know when I was just getting started. (Yes, I know -- there's nothing stopping me from "reading ahead" as it were, but it's really hard to know what you need to know without being able to practically apply much of anything first.)

I always thought it was curious that we test and license the way we do. I'd suggest that radio is slightly less dangerous for the public at large than driving a car, yet we have thousands of inexperienced drivers on the road before they get their licenses.

I understand the idea of keeping a ham-in-training to bands and modes that cause the least amount of interference to the fewest number of people, but there really should be some allocation to allow a tech somewhere on a reliable HF band beyond CW. Open up a 25kHz stretch of 20m for phone, or at least allow some of the data allocation so they can play FT8 and get their feet wet with other digital modes.

I'm sure there are downsides to that, but given the gradual decline of radio as a hobby, it feels like it's more good than harm.

73,
WZ8Q

... The secret of getting ahead is mastering the guillotine.

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On Wed 22-Oct-2025 2:43p, Mortar M.@1:124/5016.0 said to Rug Rat:

ARRL's and didn't care for it; I thought it was lacking in depth which
just made parts more confusing than they needed to be.

This for the Advanced ( I did mention I tried to upgrade to advanced many moons ago ), and Extra (I believe most of the math questions came from the Advanced pool). The material covering resonance and RLC circuits should be broken down into which formula go to which questions. The way it is explained in the book, make it seem like you need 5 fomulae for a single question. What they were doing is showing you how they got the values for each part of the equation, but for someone whos sucks at math my brain was shot before I even got to the relavant formula. So finding out from the online class, that you only needed a single formula and how to plug it into your calculator was a huge help!



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