Is there a way to have an "alpha channel" or to set a color in an ANSI or a BIN as being transparent?

I'd like to be able to make a character that's not perfectly rectangle, and have the background show through, but I'm not sure if that's possible with the existing tools.

Anyone tried something like that with frame.js or sprite.js?

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to All on Sat Jun 14 2014 04:23 pm

Is there a way to have an "alpha channel" or to set a color in an ANSI or a BIN as being transparent?

I'd like to be able to make a character that's not perfectly rectangle, and have the background show through, but I'm not sure if that's possible with the existing tools.

16 colors, dude.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Sat Jun 14 2014 07:28 pm

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to All on Sat Jun 14 2014 04:23 pm

Is there a way to have an "alpha channel" or to set a color in an ANSI or BIN as being transparent?

I'd like to be able to make a character that's not perfectly rectangle, a have the background show through, but I'm not sure if that's possible wit the existing tools.

16 colors, dude.

Obviously. But I guess what I'm getting at is, do any of the js libraries provide any way to mask a sprite so that a background character can show through an empty character in the sprite?

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to Mro on Sat Jun 14 2014 08:17 pm

I'd like to be able to make a character that's not perfectly rectangle, a have the background show through, but I'm not sure if that's possible wit the existing tools.

16 colors, dude.

Obviously. But I guess what I'm getting at is, do any of the js libraries provide any way to mask a sprite so that a background character can show through an empty character in the sprite?

you could rig something up with creativity and ansimation
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to All on Sat Jun 14 2014 16:23:32

Ahoy Kirkman,

Is there a way to have an "alpha channel" or to set a color in an ANSI or
a BIN as being transparent?
Anyone tried something like that with frame.js or sprite.js?

Yes, frame.js can do transparency. I believe sprite.js can also be used for .BINs in order to do what you are asking. Have a look at the documentation within the comments for each of those files for transparency details.

Kind regards,

art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

"Shoes are getting full of sand. I just hate that, don't you?"
-- Geordi in ST:TNG "The Enemy"

---
þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: art to Kirkman on Sun Jun 15 2014 07:27 pm

Yes, frame.js can do transparency. I believe sprite.js can also be used for .BINs in order to do what you are asking. Have a look at the documentation within the comments for each of those files for transparency details.

I see frame.js allows frames to have a transparency property, which can be set to true. The only explanation is "Do not display frame sectors where char == undefined."

Sprite.js by default sets its frames to transparent = true.

I guess what I'm still wondering about is how this actually works. So if I have a small rectangular frame filled with an ANSI or BIN file, nothing will actually be transparent, because none of the characters will be undefined, right? I'm thinking the only way I could make use of the transparency is if I render the characters individually in code, leaving some of them empty.


--Josh



////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Sat Jun 14 2014 10:41 pm

you could rig something up with creativity and ansimation

Er, yes, I'm aware I am capable of creating my own custom solution. I'm seeking help with using any existing solutions in Synchronet, or with others who may have already tackled similar siutuations previously.

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to art on Sun Jun 15 2014 18:57:11

I see frame.js allows frames to have a transparency property, which can be s to true. The only explanation is "Do not display frame sectors where char == undefined."

Sprite.js by default sets its frames to transparent = true.

I guess what I'm still wondering about is how this actually works. So if I h a small rectangular frame filled with an ANSI or BIN file, nothing will actually be transparent, because none of the characters will be undefined, right? I'm thinking the only way I could make use of the transparency is if render the characters individually in code, leaving some of them empty.

that is correct, but you could apply a filter for a specific color (or specific set of attributes) to your graphic after you load it into a frame by iterating the contents as a 2D array and comparing the .attr property to whatever color you'd like to filter, and just set it to undefined if it matches.


---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: MCMLXXIX to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 09:05 am

I guess what I'm still wondering about is how this actually works. So if a small rectangular frame filled with an ANSI or BIN file, nothing will actually be transparent, because none of the characters will be undefined right? I'm thinking the only way I could make use of the transparency is render the characters individually in code, leaving some of them empty.

that is correct, but you could apply a filter for a specific color (or speci set of attributes) to your graphic after you load it into a frame by iterati the contents as a 2D array and comparing the .attr property to whatever colo you'd like to filter, and just set it to undefined if it matches.

That's a nice idea. I'll give that a shot.

--Josh



////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to Mro on Sun Jun 15 2014 06:58 pm

you could rig something up with creativity and ansimation

Er, yes, I'm aware I am capable of creating my own custom solution. I'm seeking help with using any existing solutions in Synchronet, or with
others who may have already tackled similar siutuations previously.

"Er", what you are searching for is only an answer that you will like, not the right answer or one that is good enough.

you are dealing with text here. you are dealing with ansi graphics here.
those are the confines in which you must work with.
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to Mro on Sun Jun 15 2014 06:58 pm

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Sat Jun 14 2014 10:41 pm

you could rig something up with creativity and ansimation

Er, yes, I'm aware I am capable of creating my own custom solution. I'm

well, fucking escuse me.
you're displaying ansi graphics and i suggest a method of displaying ansigraphics to pull off what you want. how stupid of me. guess i've been doing it wrong for the past 22 years.

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?
---
þ Synchronet þ ::: BBSES.info - free BBS services :::

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 20:17:26

well, fucking escuse me.
you're displaying ansi graphics and i suggest a method of displaying ansigraphics to pull off what you want. how stupid of me. guess i've been doing it wrong for the past 22 years.

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

Notice the topic: Transparency when using frames/sprites

You don't even know what question you are answering, let alone the best answer for it. How stupid of you, indeed.

Step aside. (22 years eh? It's like you're gaining 2 years of experience in the BBS community for every year that passes)


---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 20:03:53

"Er", what you are searching for is only an answer that you will like, not t right answer or one that is good enough.

you are dealing with text here. you are dealing with ansi graphics here. those are the confines in which you must work with.

No, he was searching for information about what is already available in order to save himself some time. Your answer may have been good enough, but it certainly wasn't the right one.


---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 08:17 pm

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

DICK FIGHT! DICK FIGHT!

---
þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 08:17 pm

you're displaying ansi graphics and i suggest a method of displaying ansigraphics to pull off what you want. how stupid of me. guess i've been doing it wrong for the past 22 years.

I appreciate your longevity in the scene, and I thank you for taking the time to reply to my question.

But the fact is, I asked something pretty specific, and "You could rig up something with creativity" was completely unhelpful.

MCMLXXIX, on the other hand, offered a specific idea to help me make use of transparency in frame.js.

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

Just for fun, I'll humor you:

I run a private Synchronet BBS called "Guardian of Forever." It's for my kids, and for my own experimentation. It's been up for more than a year.

I have been a BBS user since May 7, 1992. I cosysoped another guy's BBS for a number of years in the late 1990s, but I spent much more time as a faithful user and promoter of local boards. I continued calling the longest-lived local BBSes until they began petering out in the mid-2000s.

In 2013 I created the Break Into Chat website. It features a wiki of BBS door games, which is slowly expanding, and a blog where I've posted interviews and reminscences about BBSing and retrocomputing.

In 2014 I released a new game for Synchronet, called "Doubles."

So, that's me. Not as accomplished as you, I'm sure. Just a guy who sometimes asks questions, and appreciates the folks who are willing to help.

--Josh


////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Hello Mro,

On 17 Jun 14 20:17, Mro wrote to Kirkman:

well, fucking escuse me.
you're displaying ansi graphics and i suggest a method of displaying ansigraphics to pull off what you want. how stupid of me. guess i've
been doing it wrong for the past 22 years.

Ease up man. He asked if there was something in the JAVASCRIPT libraries that could do what he was looking to do. You answered with something completely out of the boundary he was asking about.

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

E-peen comparison in 2014? Sheesh..

Regards,
Nick

--- GoldED+/LNX 1.1.5-b20130910
* Origin: Dark Sorrow | darksorrow.us (723:1/701)
þ Synchronet þ thePharcyde_ telnet://bbs.pharcyde.org (Wisconsin)

that is correct, but you could apply a filter for a specific color (or specific set of attributes) to your graphic after you load it into a frame by iterating the contents as a 2D array and comparing the .attr property to whatever color you'd like to filter, and just set it to undefined if it matches.

Okay, so I've written some code doing what you suggested, and it works:

function maskFrame(theFrame) {
var w = theFrame.width;
var h = theFrame.height;
for (var y = 0; y < h; y++) {
for (var x = 0; x < w; x++) {
var theChar = theFrame.getData(x,y);
// If theChar is empty black space, clear attributes
// to make it act as transparent.
if (theChar.ch == ' ' && theChar.attr == 7) {
theFrame.clearData(x,y);
}
}
}
}

function gamePlay() {
player.sprite = new Sprite.Profile("boy", mapFrame, 1, 1, 'e', 'normal');
maskFrame(player.sprite.frame);
player.sprite.frame.draw();

var userInput = '';
while( ascii(userInput) != 13 ) {
userInput = console.getkey(K_UPPER | K_NOCRLF);
player.sprite.getcmd(userInput);
maskFrame(player.sprite.frame);
Sprite.cycle();
mapFrame.cycle();
}
}

But I did run into a roadblock with sprites. I have a profile sprite that changes depending on whether it is facing left or right. Using the code above, the mask doesn't change when the sprite changes orientation, so basically the wrong characters are being masked.

What should I do differently to make sure each orientation has its own mask?

Also, on a related note, where can I find what the numeric values in .attr correspond to? it seems that 7 is black, but some other numbers also seemed like they might be black as well.

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

---
þ Synchronet

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to MCMLXXIX on Wed Jun 18 2014 04:04 pm

Also, on a related note, where can I find what the numeric values in .attr correspond to? it seems that 7 is black, but some other numbers also seemed like they might be black as well.

the console.attr property value corresponds to the IBM CGA text mode character attribute encoding: http://www.seasip.info/VintagePC/cga.html

0x07 is light grey (or dark white, depending on how you want to say it) foreground, with a black background.

0x47 would be light grey foreground with a blue background.

text/menu/attr.asc has the background color values shown as well. And I think TheDraw has a nice pallette feature.

digital man

Synchronet "Real Fact" #44:
Synchronet External "Plain Old Telephone System" support was introduced in 2007.
Norco, CA WX: 77.8øF, 45.0% humidity, 14 mph SE wind, 0.00 inches rain/24hrs

---
þ Synchronet þ Vertrauen þ Home of Synchronet þ [vert/cvs/bbs].synchro.net

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to MCMLXXIX on Wed Jun 18 2014 16:04:37

But I did run into a roadblock with sprites. I have a profile sprite that changes depending on whether it is facing left or right. Using the code abov the mask doesn't change when the sprite changes orientation, so basically th wrong characters are being masked.

What should I do differently to make sure each orientation has its own mask?

Also, on a related note, where can I find what the numeric values in .attr correspond to? it seems that 7 is black, but some other numbers also seemed like they might be black as well.

well, there are two ways to solve the first problem.the problem being that the srite image is larger than the frame, so when you iterate the frame using its dimensions, you are only scanning/modifying that portion of the sprite.

solution 1: use the "use_offset" argument on the frame.getData() method, which should get the data in the frame using the sprite offset which is what causes it to change direction. this is the easiest fix, but not the most efficient.

solution 2: iterate frame.data (this returns the entire graphic you loaded in) once, outside of the user input loop. you can do this once, immediately after loding the graphic in, so you arent doing it every single time it runs through your loop.

you'll find the color values in sbbsdefs.js


---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 20:17:26

Ahoy, dearest pukes!

The following line, is hereby deemed to be hilarities:

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

You may now laugh heartily, and return to your scheduled BBSing.

Darkest condolences,

art@fatcatsbbsdotcom

"When an old fighter - like me - dies, someone always steps forward to
take his place."
-- Macius to Ro Laren in ST:TNG "Preemptive Strike"

---
þ Synchronet þ fatcats bbs - fatcatsbbs.com

solution 2: iterate frame.data (this returns the entire graphic you loaded in) once, outside of the user input loop. you can do this once, immediately after loding the graphic in, so you arent doing it every single time it
runs through your loop.

So, the second solution definitely sounds better, since I only need to do it once. I wrote up some code, but the results I'm getting are the same as
before. The sprite looks great in it's initial orientation, but when I move it a different direction, the mask doesn't match the new orientation.

Using a little debugger function, I see that the maskFrame function is indeed iterating over all the characters in the entire sprite. So I'm not sure why this isn't working.

Here's my revised code:

function maskFrame(theFrame) {
var x, y, theArray, theChar;
for (x=0; x<theFrame.data.length; x++) {
theArray = theFrame.data[x];
for (y=0; y<theArray.length; y++) {
theChar = theFrame.data[x][y];
if (theChar.ch == ' ' && theChar.attr < 15) {
theFrame.data[x][y].ch = undefined;
theFrame.data[x][y].attr = undefined;
}
}
}
}

function gamePlay() {
player.sprite = new Sprite.Profile("boy", mapFrame, 1, 1, 'e', 'normal');
maskFrame(player.sprite.frame);
player.sprite.frame.draw();
var userInput = '';
while( ascii(userInput) != 13 ) {
userInput = console.getkey(K_UPPER | K_NOCRLF);
player.sprite.getcmd(userInput);
Sprite.cycle();
mapFrame.cycle();
}
}


--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

---
þ Synchronet

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to MCMLXXIX on Fri Jun 20 2014 14:29:40

So, the second solution definitely sounds better, since I only need to do it once. I wrote up some code, but the results I'm getting are the same as before. The sprite looks great in it's initial orientation, but when I move a different direction, the mask doesn't match the new orientation.

Using a little debugger function, I see that the maskFrame function is indee iterating over all the characters in the entire sprite. So I'm not sure why this isn't working.

your code looks fine to me, so I'll have to see if I can get it working on my end. If you don't mind giving me a day or two to do find time to do that I'll get back to you.

---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

your code looks fine to me, so I'll have to see if I can get it working on my end. If you don't mind giving me a day or two to do find time to do that I'll get back to you.

Sure, that would be awesome. Thanks again for all your help.

--Josh


////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog

---
þ Synchronet

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to MCMLXXIX on Fri Jun 20 2014 17:25:59

your code looks fine to me, so I'll have to see if I can get it working o my end. If you don't mind giving me a day or two to do find time to do th I'll get back to you.

Sure, that would be awesome. Thanks again for all your help.

ok. should be all set now if you update frame.js from cvs.synchro.net

you found a bug. I have squashed it.

should be ok without any code changes.

---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: MCMLXXIX to Kirkman on Fri Jun 20 2014 09:36 pm

ok. should be all set now if you update frame.js from cvs.synchro.net
you found a bug. I have squashed it.
should be ok without any code changes.

Wow, how about that. I'll update as soon as I get home tonight. Thanks again for taking a look and helping learn how to do this.

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Kirkman to MCMLXXIX on Fri Jun 20 2014 20:55:35

Wow, how about that. I'll update as soon as I get home tonight. Thanks again for taking a look and helping learn how to do this.

I don't recall helping you much. You figured out a great deal of this on your own, apparently. Good luck with your game, I'd like to see it when it's done.

---
þ Synchronet þ The BRoKEN BuBBLE (bbs.thebrokenbubble.com)

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: MCMLXXIX to Kirkman on Sat Jun 21 2014 12:04 am

I don't recall helping you much. You figured out a great deal of this on your own, apparently. Good luck with your game, I'd like to see it when it's done.

Well, the game that prompted me to ask about transparency is more of an open-ended discovery project with my daughter. We still don't have a firm concept. If it ever becomes something worthwhile, I'll definitely share it.

But I did release a game called "Doubles" recently. It's an ansified version of 2048. http://github.com/kirkman/doubles/

I also have another project called "Sports Stats" that is partially working, but I'm dissatisfied with some parts, so it may be a while before it's truly release-able.

--Josh

////--------------------------------------------------
BiC -=- http://breakintochat.com -=- bbs wiki and blog


---
þ Synchronet

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Access Denied to Mro on Wed Jun 18 2014 12:28:50

E-peen comparison in 2014? Sheesh..

Well, fucking excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME! My BBS dong is bigger than your BBS dong.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: echicken to Access Denied on Thu Jun 26 2014 04:08 pm

Well, fucking excuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuse ME! My BBS dong is bigger than your BBS dong.

Can you type with it?

---
þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Poindexter Fortran to echicken on Thu Jun 26 2014 15:47:18

Can you type with it?

Sure, albeit slowly. It's kind of a hunt-and-pecker.

---
echicken
electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com - 416-273-7230
þ Synchronet þ electronic chicken bbs - bbs.electronicchicken.com

echicken wrote to Poindexter Fortran <=-

Can you type with it?

Sure, albeit slowly. It's kind of a hunt-and-pecker.

That man can sling the puns with the best of them...

--pF



... The most important thing is the thing most easily forgotten
--- MultiMail/Win32 v0.50
þ Synchronet þ realitycheckBBS -- http://realitycheckBBS.org

Re: Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Poindexter Fortran to echicken on Fri Jun 27 2014 08:35 am

Sure, albeit slowly. It's kind of a hunt-and-pecker.

That man can sling the puns with the best of them...

He's also a meat!


---
http://DuckDuckGo.com/ a better search engine that respects your privacy.
þ Synchronet þ My Brand-New BBS (All the cool SysOps run STOCK!)

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: Mro to Kirkman on Tue Jun 17 2014 20:17:26

well, fucking escuse me.
you're displaying ansi graphics and i suggest a method of displaying ansigraphics to pull off what you want. how stupid of me. guess i've been doing it wrong for the past 22 years.

Ah... A return to the original ways of Mro. I was getting on his ass a little bit earlier while catching up, and I was starting to feel bad because his content was decent enough so that he wasn't directly pissing into
anyone's face or rubbing their fur completely backwards. I don't know why I don't just go and become happy or content with the fact that most people just never change.
Oh well. At least I don't feel bad about flaming this dipshit now. He's still up to his ways of chasing off the very people that are looking to add their own custom synchronet experience and content. This, just after I attack his ass on a message in which he's talking about how 'these days anybody can run a BBS, anybody can code at a level beyond 2nd year AS compsci degrees, etc etc etc'. This person's doing the other thing he said, no doubt (picking up a book and reading it), yet still, somehow, this guy is someone that he
should bring his guns to bear on?
The 'Er,' dipshit, was a nice way to deal with your condescending bullshit. You flaming him for it is over the line.
I don't advocate straight out murder, like you have in the past, but I'll advocate urging you to kill yourself making the planet a better place. You're locking up all of those amino acids and organic molecules that could actually be adding something useful to the plights on this planet, but no, they've got to sit there rotting in your tub of blubber and guts. Get on with it, pussy.

To everyone else: pardon me. If it offends I will stop; otherwise I enjoy this despite the fact that he sometimes doesn't get a chance to read it just because I think it's encouraging to some of the people he fucks with. Well, it's gotten some laughs before, too, and I always love to bring a smile to people's faces. :)

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

This need not feel so strange; pay attention to Lady
Liberty's Anklets, if you're so inclined.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

---
þ Synchronet þ Tinfoil Tetrahedron BBS telnet or ssh: tinfoil.synchro.net

Re: Transparency when using frames/sprites
By: art to All on Thu Jun 19 2014 10:04:48

The following line, is hereby deemed to be hilarities:

whats your bbs url and how long have you ran a bbs?

Indeed. ;)

Ahoy, dearest pukes!

I like this too. :) Homage to someone who we all know on Dove-Net.. ;)

Nightfox

---
þ Synchronet þ Digital Distortion BBS - digitaldistortionbbs.com