Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: MRO to Moondog on Fri Aug 12 2022 11:20 am

Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Moondog to MRO on Thu Aug 11 2022 09:33 pm

well he's a complicated character. i think he had some good in him.

Re-watch the episode with Dukat in the cave with Sisko. He was talking about killing and torturing people if they didn't show him the affection thought he deserved. He would oppress the workers on DS9, then tell them they should thank him.

i remember it. like i said, he was a complicated character. he wasn't blac

He's complicated for sure. About as complicated as Hitler, Stalin, or any oth er world leader who killed millions under the guise of saying they did it
for the best interests of the people, and all they ever done was also done
with good intent.

Like these leaders, he tries to get away with the big lie, and Sisko calls
him out on that DS9 episode.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Aug 13 2022 11:27 am

He's complicated for sure. About as complicated as Hitler, Stalin, or any oth er world leader who killed millions under the guise of saying they did it
for the best interests of the people, and all they ever done was also done with good intent.

Like these leaders, he tries to get away with the big lie, and Sisko calls

oh he wasnt all bad! he stopped child labor and reduced forced labor quotas by 50%.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: MRO to Moondog on Sat Aug 13 2022 05:10 pm

Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Moondog to MRO on Sat Aug 13 2022 11:27 am

He's complicated for sure. About as complicated as Hitler, Stalin, or an oth er world leader who killed millions under the guise of saying they d it
for the best interests of the people, and all they ever done was also don with good intent.

Like these leaders, he tries to get away with the big lie, and Sisko call

oh he wasnt all bad! he stopped child labor and reduced forced labor quotas

Fair enough, I guess that counts for something :)

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Thu Aug 11 2022 08:06 pm

Got all of Babylon 5 on DVD here.

Cool!

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On 08-14-22 22:06, Brokenmind wrote to Vk3jed <=-

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Thu Aug 11 2022 08:06 pm

Got all of Babylon 5 on DVD here.

Cool!

Yeah, and watched it many times. :)


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On 8/15/22 04:32, Vk3jed wrote:

Got all of Babylon 5 on DVD here.

Cool!

Yeah, and watched it many times. :)

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used the
best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained AI
against actor and studio photos. Even the SFX is much better than the
DVD version.

The new version can be found on the high seas if you look.
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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Tracker1 to Vk3jed on Sun Aug 21 2022 09:02 pm

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used the best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained AI
against actor and studio photos.

If the show was recorded on 35mm film or similar, they could re-scan it in high definition, which would probably provide better quality than an AI upscale with current software.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Mon Aug 22 2022 08:37 am

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used
the best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained
AI against actor and studio photos.

If the show was recorded on 35mm film or similar, they could re-scan it in high definition, which would probably provide better quality than an AI upscale with current software.

If you're talking about B5, I think it has the same problem that Star Trek: DS9 and Voyager have, in that practical effects were shot on 35mm, but the digital effects were done another way, and can't be upscaled. All digital effects would need to be recreated from scratch.

DaiTengu

... A self-starting oscillator won't.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 22 2022 02:05 pm

If you're talking about B5, I think it has the same problem that Star Trek: DS9 and Voyager have, in that practical effects were shot on 35mm, but the digital effects were done another way, and can't be upscaled. All digital effects would need to be recreated from scratch.

Yeah, I'v heard about that with the digital effects.

Also, I thought I had heard DS9 and Voyager were recorded on videotape (rather than 35mm film), which is one of the problems with doing a HD remaster of those shows. I heard Star Trek: TNG was filmed on 35mm film, which allowed them to more easily re-scan the negatives to 1080p, and less of TNG's effects were done digitally.

Also, from what I've heard, the reason DS9 and Voyager's digital effects would need to be re-created from scratch is that most of the original files have been lost. If they had been saved somewhere, they'd just need to re-render the effects at a higher resolution.

Nightfox

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Aug 22 2022 03:08 pm

Also, from what I've heard, the reason DS9 and Voyager's digital effects would need to be re-created from scratch is that most of the original files have been lost. If they had been saved somewhere, they'd just need to re-render the effects at a higher resolution.

I don't blame them for shooting on tape.
and look at how many episodes they have a year. it's over 20.

they were working those people to death. It's incredible what they did in tv back then.

I think now, most shows just do enough to cover each month of the year if even that.

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On 08-21-22 21:02, Tracker1 wrote to Vk3jed <=-

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used
the best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained AI against actor and studio photos. Even the SFX is much better than the
DVD version.

Yes, I am aware of this remaster. A big improvement.

The new version can be found on the high seas if you look.

Yeah, can confirm. :)

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: DaiTengu to Nightfox on Mon Aug 22 2022 02:05 pm

Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Nightfox to Tracker1 on Mon Aug 22 2022 08:37 am

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used
the best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained
AI against actor and studio photos.

If the show was recorded on 35mm film or similar, they could re-scan it high definition, which would probably provide better quality than an AI upscale with current software.

If you're talking about B5, I think it has the same problem that Star Trek: created from scratch.

DaiTengu

... A self-starting oscillator won't.

Well said. grainy, poorly rendedered (by modern standards) CGI canot be enhanced. Chances are whatever the source files used to create the animation no longer exist or it would be way easier to start over from scratch to recrea te more suitable graphics.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: MRO to Nightfox on Mon Aug 22 2022 08:55 pm

Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Nightfox to DaiTengu on Mon Aug 22 2022 03:08 pm

Also, from what I've heard, the reason DS9 and Voyager's digital effects would need to be re-created from scratch is that most of the original fil have been lost. If they had been saved somewhere, they'd just need to re-render the effects at a higher resolution.

I don't blame them for shooting on tape.
and look at how many episodes they have a year. it's over 20.

they were working those people to death. It's incredible what they did in tv

I think now, most shows just do enough to cover each month of the year if ev

I forgot which actor it was, may Peter Capaldi, who complained about the 12+ hour work days the Dr Who producers expected the crew and actors to work.
Must be a British thing regarding work hours, because that is common fare
with filming any Hollywood or Vancouver productions. Funny thing he was complaining about doing this over a run of eight or so episodes a half
season. TNG or X-Files would do this over 26 episodes a season. Soap operas such as General Hospital had to film an episode in one day to keep producing
5 hour long shows a week.

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On 8/22/22 08:37, Nightfox wrote:

For what it's worth, HBO Max did a high definition remaster of it...
it's much better quality than the DVD copy... I'm guessing they used
the best available sourcing and did AI upscaling with well trained AI
against actor and studio photos.

If the show was recorded on 35mm film or similar, they could re-scan
it in high definition, which would probably provide better quality
than an AI upscale with current software.

No idea, just know the SFX scenes were also improved from DVD quality,
so assumed it was AI driven, but may have been a rescan for parts as
well, usually depends on the time/money investment the company is
willing to make.
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On 8/23/22 12:54, Moondog wrote:

Well said. grainy, poorly rendedered (by modern standards) CGI canot be enhanced. Chances are whatever the source files used to create the animation no longer exist or it would be way easier to start over from scratch to recrea
te more suitable graphics.

B5 SFX was rendered at 1/2 scale (quarter screen) and enlarged and the original models are gone. It's definitely not new/recreated models/fx,
and definitely better than original... like I said probably AI upscaled,
there are animation upscale algorithms that do pretty good, which is
likely what was used for those clips. There's a host of problems why B5 didn't see a remaster before the one for HBO Max, which is why my
assumption is it was a good AI driven upscaling.
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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Aug 23 2022 04:04 pm

I forgot which actor it was, may Peter Capaldi, who complained about the 12+ hour work days the Dr Who producers expected the crew and actors to work. Must be a British thing regarding work hours, because that is common fare with filming any Hollywood or Vancouver productions. Funny thing he was

i'm sure they werent needed for all 12 hrs, too. they could rest in their trailer.

echleston also complained about how the crew was treated [not the actors] in regards to workload so there might be something.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: MRO to Moondog on Wed Aug 24 2022 08:33 pm

Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Moondog to MRO on Tue Aug 23 2022 04:04 pm

I forgot which actor it was, may Peter Capaldi, who complained about the hour work days the Dr Who producers expected the crew and actors to work. Must be a British thing regarding work hours, because that is common fare with filming any Hollywood or Vancouver productions. Funny thing he was

i'm sure they werent needed for all 12 hrs, too. they could rest in their t

echleston also complained about how the crew was treated [not the actors] in regards to workload so there might be something.

I saw Armin Shimmerman at a Trek convention long ago, and he talked about
long days filming DS9. They would sometimes re-film scenes from different angles, then mix between the scenes later on. One time his character was supposed to be presumed dead, or is laying unconscious, so he had to lay
there for several hours as they filmed and re-filmed dialog from the actors standing over him. The shots were going good, little need for re-shoots of li nes. When they were nearly done, he realized he forgot to have his teeth prosthetics placed back in after lunch! Some closeups were redone, however
in most scenes where he is visible with other actors, it's only noticeable if you're looking for it.

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Re: Re: Babylon 5
By: Vk3jed to Brokenmind on Thu Aug 11 2022 08:06 pm

Got all of Babylon 5 on DVD here.

thats asome I have them all also but i bought them on speical on Vudu awhile back.

BrokenMind

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